tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156672331917646930.post4698068660353144150..comments2018-10-02T09:47:38.018-07:00Comments on Mesomania: Mesomania and CES (Church Educational System)jonathan3dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05379975395372054926noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156672331917646930.post-67667711508760954172016-11-13T17:11:46.375-08:002016-11-13T17:11:46.375-08:00Just getting around to reading this now (for some ...Just getting around to reading this now (for some reason I had the settings for this particular blog wrong on my RSS reader). But like #littlerasco, I like your reasoning here. Kudo's. Steven Montgomeryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02291046612560917501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156672331917646930.post-39673756349444125942016-10-28T15:21:58.063-07:002016-10-28T15:21:58.063-07:00That's a good idea. I'll put that in one o...That's a good idea. I'll put that in one of my next "how to" videos.<br /><br />:)jonathan3dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05379975395372054926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156672331917646930.post-18117555847943668922016-10-28T15:21:13.933-07:002016-10-28T15:21:13.933-07:00Hi erichard. Thanks for your comment. I've dis...Hi erichard. Thanks for your comment. I've discussed Del's observations before on the bookofmormonwars blog, but there are many new readers here, so I'll review it again.<br /><br />Basically, Del claims Oliver Cowdery was speculating, did not know what he was talking about, had no revelation, etc. Either that or he was a liar. None of these options are exactly ideal for one of the Three Witnesses. Let alone for the Assistant President of the Church and the only other witness to many of the most important foundational events of the Restoration.<br /><br />Letter VII speaks for itself. To say Oliver was speculating when he specifically wrote it was a fact makes him a liar; i.e., a fact is not speculation. To say Joseph was speculating when he had it reprinted and recorded in his own journal undermines everything else he taught. To say Joseph F. Smith was speculating when he reprinted it in the Improvement Era, or Joseph Fielding Smith was speculating both as Church Historian and a 20-year apostle, and then again 20 years later as President of the Quorum of the Twelve, is problematic. Not to mention claiming that President Marion G. Romney and Elder Mark E. Peterson were speculating in General Conference in the 1970s. So we have 140 years of a consistent position taken by the prophets and apostles, and Del and others object because of what? <br /><br />Purely to defend their pet geography theories.<br /><br />As I've always said, people are free to believe whatever they want. I've gone through Del's material and found them internally inconsistent, contradictory to what Joseph and Oliver said, and contradictory to the text. But I'm not arguing with him; I have no problem with him believing believe his theories. I have no problem with the Meso advocates believing their theories, either. <br /><br />All I ask is that people explain their views regarding Letter VII. It was ubiquitous in Joseph's day, and even made it into the official edition of the Book of Mormon from 1879 through 1920, where Cumorah was identified as a fact while other sites were clearly marked as speculative. Every Church member today should be familiar with Letter VII as a matter of Church history, if nothing else. <br /><br />FWIW, I find Letter VII consistent with the text, with everything else Joseph said, and with archaeology, anthropology, geology, and geography. Others don't, which is fine with me. <br /><br />Again, thanks for your comment and sorry to write so much but people ask me these things all the time so now I can refer them here.<br /><br />:)<br /><br />All the best.jonathan3dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05379975395372054926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156672331917646930.post-51537243451029912382016-10-28T13:47:43.540-07:002016-10-28T13:47:43.540-07:00LOVE THIS ARTICLE!!!! It really lays it out there!...LOVE THIS ARTICLE!!!! It really lays it out there!! In your first paragraph you stated, "The Church web page explains CES here." However that link explained the church's position on education, but not on the "Church Education System." I LOVED how you recaped all the Letter VII references at the bottom of the page!! I was wondering if you could also expound on the references to where Joseph Fielding Smith cited the letter in the 1930's and 50's. Thank you very much!!littlerascohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10615353996674116835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156672331917646930.post-71588197685282953222016-10-27T19:36:42.716-07:002016-10-27T19:36:42.716-07:00On the other hand, your concerns about Mesomania i...On the other hand, your concerns about Mesomania in the church are definitely justified. There are many many problems with the Mesoamerican setting for the Book of Mormon, and I agree with you that it should not be pushed at the expense of other settings.erichardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12279217537472159142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156672331917646930.post-21271597616808156962016-10-27T19:31:00.719-07:002016-10-27T19:31:00.719-07:00Letter VII is not good enough for me either. Sor...Letter VII is not good enough for me either. Sorry, but no cigar. You should consider at least reading what Del has to say about Letter VII, if you have not: http://nephicode.blogspot.com/2016/09/separating-speculation-and-opinion-from.htmlerichardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12279217537472159142noreply@blogger.com